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Originally posted by Sappho: According to "Pom" Russians have no compassion, are you agreeing with him on this account?

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I am not sure he said that (don't want to reread the whole topic), but if he did, the answer is no.

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Originally posted by Sappho: If someone told me that I could either "donate several thousand dollars to the Tsunami victims and get some of it back" or "just donate several thousand dollars to the Tsunami victims," I would most likely go with the option #1. Now, how many people do you think would still donate if they didn't receive any tax breaks? That's the question I'd like to have the answer to. Would it be the same percentage of people? I highly doubt it. So, the argument with the tax breaks is not a strong one if it's used by itself, but along with the rest of the arguments presented, it certainly serves its purpose.

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My argument was that, if (hypothetically) you get 10% of your donations back, and that was the true reson, people in other countries could just donate 10% less. All else being equal, the math is solid here :) My argument is that there is more than math involved. For reasons that you don't like hearing :)

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Originally posted by Sappho:

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Originally posted by Egor: Being well off argument doesn't fly. Measure as a percentage of income to rule this out, that's all.

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So, you are saying that a wealthy person is just as likely do donate as a person who comes from the middle class, low middle class, and poverty?

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No. I am saying that things that cause people to donate or volunteer are surprisingly not a function of wealth. In the US, that is. Look at habitat for humanity, for example. Look at Peace Corps. Most volunteers are poor students, or at best middle class. Yes, a lot of the money comes from the wealthy. But look how much comes from $5 donations! Everyone contributes, who shares the required ethical background.

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Originally posted by Sappho: If you look at this issue from a psychological stand point, it makes sense that Americans are donating more than everyone else. After having received enough pleasure from owning the material goods, people realize that they don't derive as much pleasure out of simply "owning stuff" and "more stuff." They want to do something else, something that will give them pleasure. This explains the Hollywood's late obssession with helping the poor, adopting from the third world countries, giving money to various non-profit organizations around the world. Many of the "stars" today are second and third generations of pure wealth, they grew up with it, and now it doesn't do much for them. It's not to say that there aren't exceptions and people who donate and do good around the world simply out of the goodness of their heart. Percentage of these people is low, and I think it's about the same regardless of which country it is.

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Yes, this is a contributing factor to why the wealthy help. I made no arguments about countless contributing factors, I could list them here ad nauseum. But this one does not apply to those who are not well off. Allow me, very carefully, to bring up Russia You got a pretty large number of people that are well off. Their descendants are going to fit what you just described - not only well off, but well off for a long time. What kind of values do you expect from these "new russians" once they aren't "new"? Taking into account, how this generation is being raised, and with what values? Honestly, I would expect more alturism from the russian middle class eventually. This is just an opinion, I will not defend it, here, and it is unnecessary for my points.

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Originally posted by Sappho:

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Originally posted by Egor: And non-financial alturism.. volunteering for example.

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Give Russia a hundred years or so of "wealth", let Russians enjoy the material goods for a while, and they, too, will turn to all sorts of altruistic activities. You may argue with me all you want, but I am convinced that people are creatures of pleasure and for pleasure.

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Allow me to humbly suggest that you have just contradiceted yourself. :) Only because you probably don't realize that Americans get purely personal pleasure from alturism. Which is the cause of it, no matter who does it an in what country. Yes, they care about others. So does any adequate person n any country (why I disagreed with the the suggestion that russians have no compassion). But what good is passive compassion? ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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Originally posted by Egor: Allow me, very carefully, to bring up Russia

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Егор, тебе б-И-сера не жаль?:-)

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Originally posted by Egor: Yes, a lot of the money comes from the wealthy. But look how much comes from $5 donations! Everyone contributes, who shares the required ethical background.

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it has nothing to do with ethnicity or ethical stuff - it's purely religios. even those who don't go to chirch do it here because that's what apropriate here due to majority of population being religiosly brainwashed. Brainwashing is used not just for bad things, sometimes for good too. Indipendent minded don't donate.... in principal.

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

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Originally posted by KGBMan: Indipendent minded don't donate.... in principal.

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What? You think independence and compassion cannot exist together? Could you elaborate?

KGB I don't see how you consider people who are religious as brainwashed. The difference is that one groups sees divine creation as the origin of things. There is plenty of evidence to support this theory. The second group sees natural selection and evolution as the origin of things. There is evidence to support this as well. Nothing prevents the fact that God may have designed things and His way includes the process of natural selection. Secondly, I view it as enlightened that people are religious. This is "thinking out of the box" if I ever saw it. It is far easier to bellieve in evolution than creation. Believing in creation takes faith by believing in something you cannot see. Always judge others by the same standards as you would want them to judge you

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Make each day count to improve yourself and those around you

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Originally posted by mkgilstrap: KGB I don't see how you consider people who are religious as brainwashed. The difference is that one groups sees divine creation as the origin of things. There is plenty of evidence to support this theory. The second group sees natural selection and evolution as the origin of things. There is evidence to support this as well. Nothing prevents the fact that God may have designed things and His way includes the process of natural selection. Secondly, I view it as enlightened that people are religious. This is "thinking out of the box" if I ever saw it. It is far easier to bellieve in evolution than creation. Believing in creation takes faith by believing in something you cannot see. Always judge others by the same standards as you would want them to judge you

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I'm going to respectfully take sides with the Godless Communists on this one. Here is the best way I can illustrate this. Imagine, if you will, that you are I are back in Athens Greece about 2,500 years ago. We are sitting in the back of the classroom (well, probably just sitting on the grass), and I tell you I'm not really sure about this whole 'Zeus on the top of Mount Olympia' thing. You look at me shocked - being an out-of-the-box thinker, you have complete faith in "The Gods". :-) You have the safer bet: if you are right and I'm wrong then you will spend the rest of eternity enveloped in heavely bliss. I'll be some place a lot hotter. "Your ad here:"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

or maybe you would correct me that zeus is on top of Mount Olympus. Damn, olympia is where we run track. lol "Your ad here:"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

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Originally posted by KGBMan:

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Originally posted by Egor: Yes, a lot of the money comes from the wealthy. But look how much comes from $5 donations! Everyone contributes, who shares the required ethical background.

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it has nothing to do with ethnicity or ethical stuff - it's purely religios. even those who don't go to chirch do it here because that's what apropriate here due to majority of population being religiosly brainwashed. Brainwashing is used not just for bad things, sometimes for good too. Indipendent minded don't donate.... in principal.

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Disagreed based on observation. Most Americans I know, donate/volunteer to variyng extents. Most of them atheist. For some people, you are right. Some only do it because of religion so they can go to heaven :) Fine w me, whatever your reasons. On the easy vs. hard topic, agree w Bond. Nothing is easier than believeing in creation. Peace of mind at its very core. :) That's why people describe such a tremendous metaphysical relief when they are "saved", imho. Uncertainty = stress. Faith = bliss. But both donate :) So try another explanation. ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

I don't like donating, but I will when I see some personal benefit. Both times I've donated in the last year were to score some political points at work. lol Just being honest (as usual). I might have donated to some Iraqi children's fund if soembody had approached me the right way. Really bugs me how we've ruined a lot of lives over there. "Your ad here:"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

I actually probably donate a lot less than I've made people here think :) Its the sum that matters :) ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

here is my russian donation:

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...another SMALL donor! lol "Your ad here:"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

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Originally posted by James Bond: ...another SMALL donor! lol

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LMAO! Thank you, James! LOL

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Originally posted by IntensityInsanity: here is my russian donation:

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I have a dream. That a content of a man' character is judged not by the color of his skin, but the content of his "my documents" folder ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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Originally posted by Leah:

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Originally posted by KGBMan: Indipendent minded don't donate.... in principal.

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What? You think independence and compassion cannot exist together? Could you elaborate?

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What ? You think compassion equals donations ??????? Egor, Yes, most Americans, even atheist donate. Because they were born and raised here. Here is the most religious society of the western world. Because of that - donations are the norm, the way of life, it's part of society's behavior "DO's". That's why they do it. Same thing with Muslims. They donate even more (percentage vise). Because their religion mandates it. mkgilstrap, KGB I don't see how you consider people who are religious as brainwashed. Easy, for one and only reason - every religion asks people to believe . To worship something. That's brainwashing. Evolution doesn't give a crap if you believe in it or not, it doesn't ask you to worship it. It tells you to study stuff and make up your own mind. That's science.

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....