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Originally posted by Leah:

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Originally posted by 412: You are not shining today. Two words for you: dual citizenship.

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Well, I thought that's what you meant, but Pom's reaction made me wonder if I was missing something. Your ex sounds like a good and caring person.

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She is a great girl. She speaks fluent Russian too, so the kid most likely will preserve some of his language skills. Pom? Well, I dunno, just another case of spermotoxicosis.

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I know couple of adopted teens. They were adopted at 13 and 10. While they are in love with their new parents and family and great kids themselves (I met their paretns also they are the coolest parets you might dream only about), but most of their friends tell horrid stories. They hate new parents, new homes, new schools, I'd say more than 50% are not happy after coming here. And they are from orphanage... Sad. They all dream to grow up and leave those new parents...

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Teens? Adopting teens is crazy. All teens hate their parents. I figure the unconditional love you got from your child when they are young partially offsets the torture and hatred they will show you when they become a teen. Just for fun, I did a search on why teens hate their parents. I thought this was a cute letter from one teen girl to her Dad....lol.... Dear Daddy, Things aren't that peachy perfect. I'm sad and doing wild things with my sister. I'm out there doing drugs and I've had a miscarriage three times. I do this stuff because I feel that you hate me. Remember how you mistreated my mother because you always had to have your way? How could you hurt a gentle soul like my mother? Guess what? Sometimes I wish you'd just rot in hell for the shame and disgrace you put my dear, sweet mother through. As I grow older, I see you for the trifling man that you are. You know what, Daddy? I'm not even going to trip, because what goes around comes around. Daddy, I hate you and I figure I should write it down on paper. Love, Your Wonderful Daughter "Your ad here"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

I think maybe these people are trying to protect these kids until they get older. I mean if somewhere in the bible belt there are not many Viktors and Natalias (maybe i am wrong about this), these kids don't need the extra aggravation of trying to fit in, maybe the parents are thinking that it will be easier for the pair to adjust in school and with other kids if they had "regular" names. Still, I think 8 years old is a little too late for a child to have a name changed.

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Свободу попугаям!

well, well... Interesting points, but what I see is that it's ok to Americanize everything. Why should kids be shamed where they are from? You say that they will have better life, are you 100% can guaranty that they will have better life, there not one case that adopted kids regretted benign adopted? Those kids that try to find there original parents much be crazy and ungrateful, adopting parent will never abuse you or use you like the original parent. Those damn chinese and there crazy names, they all should be John or Bob so we can say there names, screw there culture and language, there is America time now. And on the topic of America are you talking about the native Americans or the Europeans that came here, because those native had some crazy names too. Yeah there parent must be drunks, all Russian are drunk, so you should just take all there kids. I mean, it will be crazy to think that parents loved there child but because lack of work or what ever they thought it's better to give a kid away because some american family can take there kid and offer them a little bit more then they could. This is crazy talk, I'm benign negative because those kids will have "better" love here as americans always know what is the best way. I changed my name blah blah... Ok that's cool that you changed your name, I mean it's your right. But i guess you missed the key point, that YOU changed the name not some one else done it for you.

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If we came to live in this country, we should accept the language and the culture the same way other people should accept Russian/Ukrainian culture if they want to be accepted and be a part of those countries. If you are a person just looking to have better home and more food, then I understand why you do not want to be Americanized. You live in America - it is a Nation, not an incubator. And Nation has to have its own language and culture. And because it is a grait nation - you allawed to have your culture as a part of your life, not mine. Just wait 10-15 years, when your children grow up and see if they are Ukranians or Americans. If you do not want them to be Americans, go home...

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looks like you history is a bit rusty. Lt's talk about native american, the guy name colombus that came to american. did colombus change he's name ? Also what happen to native as i don't really see them much.

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Originally posted by jkash: If you do not want them to be Americans, go home...

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Whoa. . . Somebody give this woman партийный билет, of the Republican kind, of course.

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Originally posted by KaKTyC: looks like you history is a bit rusty. Lt's talk about native american, the guy name colombus that came to american. did colombus change he's name ? Also what happen to native as i don't really see them much.

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Seems like we got off topic about adoption - but then that never stopped me before. Christopher Columbus? You mean the conquistador that discovered America? The same guy who's real name we changed???: Italian born sailor named Cristobal Colon, a Portugues mariner that was financed by the Queen of Spain? You need to watch more hollywood movies so you can get up to speed on the great culture of the USA. Lots of native americans still live on Indian reservations - what's that got to do with anything? The Spanish Conquistadors were some bad ass dudes - talk about a brutal war of aggression in the name of expansion/religion. 90% of the 12 million Aztec's in mexico died due to disease brought by the Spaniards (talk about WMD). Anyway, we Americans learned everything we know about Imperialism from the British. That's why we are so good at it, especially with their help. lol History Lesson about Cristobal Colon: European discoverer of America; born in Genoa, Italy. In Portugal, he became a master mariner and was determined to reach India by sailing west. After eight years of supplication, he received the backing of the Spanish monarchs FERDINAND V and ISABELLA I. On Oct. 12, 1492, his ships, the Nina Pinta, and Santa Maria reached Watling Island, in the Bahama group; later they touched CUBA and HISPANIOLA. He was made an admiral and governor general of all new lands. In 1493 he set sail with 17 ships, exploring PUERTO RICO and the Leeward Islands, and founding a colony in Hispaniola. In 1498 he explored VENEZUELA, realizing that he had found a continent. Because of disreputable conditions in Hispaniola, he was replaced as governor in 1500 and returned to Spain in chains. On his last voyage (1502) he reached Central America. Although he is considered a master navigator today, he died in neglect, almost forgotten. "Your ad here"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

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Originally posted by jkash: If we came to live in this country, we should accept the language and the culture the same way other people should accept Russian/Ukrainian culture if they want to be accepted and be a part of those countries. If you are a person just looking to have better home and more food, then I understand why you do not want to be Americanized. You live in America - it is a Nation, not an incubator. And Nation has to have its own language and culture. And because it is a grait nation - you allawed to have your culture as a part of your life, not mine. Just wait 10-15 years, when your children grow up and see if they are Ukranians or Americans. If you do not want them to be Americans, go home...

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Well, guess what? I am "home" (born here and everything) and I'm the one who started the topic objecting to this. Contrary to your implications, not one person has said the children should not learn English or acclimate to life in the US. Straw man anyone? The discussion is primarily about stripping the first names from humans old enough to feel the trauma and confusion, something animal experts even advise against when a dog or cat joins a new home. “No one but a fool is always right.” -David Hare

One thing about the law - it leaves little room for emotion. The write-up below is from a legal overview of the adoption process. It's expected that you will change their names. And it's evident that the law does everything it can to erase the existence of their previous life (whether from Ukraine or Utah): WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THE ADOPTION? As a result of the final judgment of adoption being granted, the adoptive family permanently assumes all parental rights and responsibilities for the child, with the birth parents’ parental rights and responsibilities previously being terminated. The first effect of this is that the child’s name is generally changed to whatever the adoptive family desires. This is accomplished with the vital statistics office of the state in which the child was born. The paperwork for this is prepared by the attorney or agency. The original birth certificate is sealed and not readily available again to anyone. A new birth certificate is prepared which shows the adoptive parents to be the child’s natural parents and states the child’s new name. This new birth certificate is mailed to the attorney or agency and forwarded to the adoptive family. Once the new birth certificate is received by the adoptive family, they may apply for a new Social Security number, a passport for the child, and open accounts on behalf of the child. For all legal intents and purposes, the child will be considered the natural child of the adoptive family. Further, the adopted child will stand on an equal footing with all other children that may then be or later come into the adoptive family, regardless of whether the other children are biologically born or adopted to the family. This is true with respect to wills and estates or later if the adoptive parents divorce. Thus, except for the biological realities, it is as though the child was born to the adoptive family initially. "Your ad here"

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

2 James, Guess you missed some of my point and didn't reply to everything. Guess you missed the fact that Vikings "discovered" america way before colombus. and that people that came with colombus to usa, weren't the "good" people.... But i gouess you can't alway google everything 8) "culture of the USA" you when killing the native, they show in on TV now? So that's where you get your history form the Hollywwod... damn, I really got nothing to talk to you about, only if i want to about Paris hilton. lol 2 jkash, KKK forum is full? lol 2 Leah, you read the replies that you got, does that really surprise you that some people can really careless for others?

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Guess what? I am home too... I think you do not understand that 'stripping' the first name is no big deal, if in return those children are given opportunity to simply survive.

And for 412: guess what? I am not a Republican and you can keep your party ticket for yourself. There is nothing wrong to return to your mother land if you what to preserve your heritage... Go to Privet and read how many people what to return for different reasons.

I know many people who were very presistant to save the heritage in their families. Guess what? All their children barely speak russian after 15 years if they came 3 or 6 years olds. If you came to live in the contry, not to do your bussness and travel bitween contries, and finally return to Russia, be prepare for Americanization of your children.

Kaktyc, cereful, you have to much anger.Forums are places where people try to resolve their problems, I understand that.

 

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Thank you for such a passionate speech.  I am not issuing the tickets, I was just referring to the fact that you repeated a very popular among the conservatives rhetoric.

There's certainly nothing wrong with going back to the Motherland, unless you have a host of related issues: a child that was born here (ad who speaks and reads Russian, not perfectly, but still, thank you very much), and you spent close to a half of your life here and if you go back, you go back to nothing, absolutely nothing, but family and friends.

What is Americanization in your understanding?  Drinking Bud on Monday night in front of a TV tuned to American football?  Not knowing your roots, and not exactly caring about it?  Prophesying to everyone and everything that "we are the navel of the World, and you, lowly bastards, better kneel, before we'll democratize your asses?"  What is it?

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mellow out.  You may find this amusing...... 

An American living in Russia wrote:

I believe I've mentioned that sometimes I have difficulty explaining to Russians that our two cultures are not that incredibly different.  This often is a result of them watching too many Hollywood movies, I think: Hollywood is not real life.  I think, also, it results from this weird moral superiority complex Russian culture has.  Academics in particular love to write about this.  When Constantinople fell to the Turks, Russia was the only officially Orthodox country left, and this gave them a sense of spiritual destiny as the keepers of truth.  They started calling Moscow "the Third Rome" (Byzantium being the second guardian of the true faith).  Somehow this complex spread to other areas of Russian life, and they are now all convinced they are completely superior in every aspect of human relations: Russians are truer friends, deeper lovers, nobler soldiers, have closer and more conservative families, make the biggest sacrifices for a good cause...it's actually really annoying and condescending, especially when they start comparing Russian culture to cultures they know nothing about.

what's different are the dogs:

... the strange thing about stray dogs here.  They look both ways before they cross the street.  I thought I was imagining this, but Adrianne's noticed it, too.  We actually saw one of the dogs near our school look both ways, and even though there were no cars coming, he waited for the light to change.  This is especially funny because Russians have no qualms about jay-walking, but apparently their dogs do. 

Homesick for the Banya?

While we were in the banya Saturday night, I was comparing Russia and what we do for fun in the US.  I said we go to clubs, to the movies, to each other's houses...that sort of thing.  But we don't have anything like the banya.  Nothing that is even comprable.  We have saunas, sure, but a sauna is not an entire social event.  It's just a sauna.  And he said something I've heard so many times since I've come here: Russia is much more fun.  
Russia is more fun.  Lots of Russians say this, whether they've been abroad or not.  Vitya (who I met a couple weekends ago) said he's been to Western Europe, and while it was pretty, it wasn't very interesting.  As he put it, "all the adventure's gone."  I think this sense of adventure is part of what draws a lot of the ex-pats who move here.  They're not like the ex-pats who move to Spain or Italy, who just want to relax and sun themselves on the beach.  Every day in Russia is a new adventure, and Russians are also much better at having a good time, I think.  They relax much better.

(probably the vodka...)

 

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."