Leah is right! Certainly there are tons of risks involved with getting pregnant late, but women are healthier than before and extension to become mom is just another flexibility of our century. Though I've been a witness of very wierd picture in swimming pool changing room. When the lady (looking aged) was changing a toddler and another lady said something about "good grandma"... She was not grand (!), she was just "ma". That was very akward. I was trying to comfort the [first] lady for the next 30 min saying that I think the same way... Confusion of our days.

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Originally posted by Egor: I think someone missed my disclaimer.. If this is to be discussed rationally, it can't be like this.

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I didn't realize the disclaimer applied to this post as well, thought it was for the earlier one. And I am always rational....

Listen to your inner voice! Kids are a huge pain in the a**. I'm not saying they aren't worth it IF you really really want them - but if you don't want them you will be miserable with the fact that your life, as you now know it, is over. Kids = diapers, no more expensive restaurants, no more free time, constant teaching of right/wrong, constant reinforcement with the stick and carrot. If 2 people fall in love and DONT want kids - man, that is gonna be an easy relationship to be in. I'm sure lots of people will disagree, BUT, the big secret married people like to keep from single people is how much life sucks after the kids come. ps: don't forget to save for college.

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

Leah, that disclaimer applies to my entire life :) And no one is rational w me when they don't follow the disclaimer :) TallSally, I understand what you are saying, but again menopause has not moved.. All medicine has done is make it safer to have babies.. at any age. Either way, even if we move menopause, we are talking about what.. a couple of years? The avg age women are giving birth has moved like a decade in the last centyry and 2 decades since instinct mattered. And it's gonna keep moving, right? You see what I am saying? James Bond - perfect example of discussing anything but instinct ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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Originally posted by Egor: Leah, that disclaimer applies to my entire life :) And no one is rational w me when they don't follow the disclaimer :)

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Well, your disclaimer intructed us not to become violently angry with you and I wasn't, just moderately irritated. You will know when I am feeling violently angry. :)

Save me Pom. I did it again.. If you do worse, i come out ok. P.S. I think it was "****-headed". ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

all i know is we need him in this topic.. and you are the next best thing. ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Only as a general obervation, and I think it is what Egor was mentioning as well- the natural constrains are more harsh on a female than on a male- she cannot (generally) have kids at 50, a man can. So such natural disposition of things makes/pushes a female to make a decison or to act early - if she chooses to act at all. (Obvioulsly a man may have his own reasonas to have kids earler than fifty- but inbaility to have them per se is absent). PS- Madonna is amazing-first child at 42, looks amazing, accomplished, wealthy, self starter, lives in UK- not in order of importance

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...and she can dance!

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

Once I read a book (published in 1905) with the advices how to stay young. One of them was to give birth at 40. So trend is not new.

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Originally posted by TallSally: Once I read a book (published in 1905) with the advices how to stay young. One of them was to give birth at 40. So trend is not new.

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FIRST birth? I thought this whole topic is about the initial decision to have children... first birth. Masha, thank you for understanding :) ________________________________________ "Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

I know, far from topic... Somehow my mind went somewhere else :) It was a thought to continue with "late kids" decisions...

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I knew I was going to regret entering this topic. I avoided it for days. Regarding pure instinct, I just don't think I have it. I don't naturally fawn over children as a group. They tend to be loud and sticky and they break things. I tend to assess children the same way I do adults. Based on personality or whatever criteria, I like some of them and I dislike some of them. Just like adults. I do usually like the children of parents I like. I don't know if they take on the parent's personality or if I just like them because they are a part of the person I like. As a child, I refused to play with dolls no matter how many my mother purchased. I preferred stuffed (or live) animals. As a teen, when I envisioned my future, children were never part of that fantasy. In my twenties, having children was not part of my agenda. I wasn't declaring that I never would, but there was plenty of time to think about later because I sure didn't want any then. Around 32, I had this realization of "Oh damn. I am supposed to do that (have children). I guess I'd better hurry." I really didn't want them then either, just thought I was obligated, I suppose. Then, completely unrelated, I fell hard, very very hard, for someone about a year later. Suddenly, I wanted HIS children, and probably scared the hell out of him by saying it since I don't hide my feelings well. It was the first time I'd ever really imagined them as a happy and highly desired part of my life. Once that relationship ended, I really wasn't interested beyond it just being something I am supposed to do. Then I realized that I don't HAVE to do anything. I'm not saying I'll never do it, but I certainly won’t unless I really want them and am prepared for the difficulties and sacrifices that decision would involve. Eventually time may decide for me, but for now I am ambivalent.

Giving birth in 1905 at the age of 40 was a good way to die, not stay young. geez. Life expectancy back then was 49 years old! That means the mom had 9 years to take care of the kid, if she lived through the pregnancy. That is nonsense. Enough of all this negative talk though - I did hear one positive thought over the weekend: "We are all broken in some way, like a key that is broken to fit a lock. The challenge is to find the other person that is broken like us, that we fit with like a key into a lock." kinda cool.

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."

just think... if you have kids, and then you break up or got divorced, and you really weren't all that fond of kids to begin with, but now you'd be by yourself with kids, plus now you are less attractive to other men that aren't sure if they want kids, but even if the next man in your life does want kids, he may not like your kid... You had better be darn sure you AND your significant other are both gonna be together for the long haul before you start deciding on kids.... One issue is that INSTINCT makes women rush to have kids (tick tock tick tock) before they really have any business doing so. The result? lots of broken families and too many kids not getting the maternal support they deserve. Or, if they are lucky enough to have a sweet caring maternal mother - then they probably have a single mom who spends all her time just working so she can keep food on the table. I have dated plenty of women who were looking for a Dad [for the baby they so badly want]; they were less interested in a boyfriend or husband. They get so caught up in wanting to have kids, they forget that there is actually life AFTER the kids come. That's the hard part. Same with married women who can't convieve - they go crazy and spend thousands of dollars to get pregnant, and then when they get triplets, go right on anti-depressants. That is one of life's ironies.

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"Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable."