Will senate pass the bill offering the hope of citizenship to millions of illeal immigrants?

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No method or capability to remove them from the country.. And 80% of americans want them accounted for and registered... So the answer is yes, imho :) That, and stalling, are the only two choices. "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." -H. G. Wells, Outline of History (1920)

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

According to CNN only 51% want them accounted for and registered. Isn't the majority of senate who are republicans are against legalization?

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i want them here for two reasons: 1) they are harmless; 2) they put cheap food on our tables.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pomidorchik: i want them here for two reasons: 1) they are harmless; 2) they put cheap food on our tables.

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1)The majority is. But do you want some links on the crime rings, human/contraband smuggling, and the ease of international crime/terrorist watch people who can get into the US by first flying to mexico? And these stats are low because we aren't even looking. 2)I just love this argument. It never comes with an explanation though. "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." -H. G. Wells, Outline of History (1920)

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

The bill will pass. The borders will still remain unsecured. Why? Because economically it is favorable to have illegal mexicans in the country (at least for now). We just have to wait a couple decades (till all the americans become overly obese and lazy to even think about the matter), and then the new Mexican country will define its future for us. This whole immigration thing (just like environment) is a perfect example of the mentality people always had and have in the country, which is "let our future generation to deal with this". I like mexican people but would prefer America remain America. There are so many people around the world who'd like to live in US. Why would mexicans get a waver to the immigration law that we currently have? What makes them so special compared to other illegal and LEGAL immigrants. The numbers? I guess that's a perfect example of democracy at work -- the majority always wins. I guess in order to solve this problem we have to be ready for some kind of sacrifices to take for some time. Personally, I wouldn't mind to go through this, but I am afraid the majority of US is not.

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start investing in taco bell.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Guttermouth: start investing in taco bell.

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what for? it gives me gas... and it's not tasty.

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Taco Bell is american company, we need to invest in some Tequila factory.... Look at the bright side, when all mexicans move here, there will be a whole empty country to the south fro us to settle -------------------

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

You are right KGBman, more and more people choose to retire somewhere in Mexico. Low taxes, low prices, great climate, exotic locations. They are very welcome in that country because they come with a lot of green $-) Public officials stumble over themselves trying to attract them. They are also creating a demand for law and order so there are several semi-closed towns over there already. Whats low taxes for babyboomers is a windfall for Mexican public service, these towns are the most developed as far as services and civic improvements. Another benefit is that US retirees support a healthy community of specialists making good wages off serving them, these people create a sort of "civil society" that Mexico needs. But one good terrorist attack and the border with Mexico will be knee-deep in Marines. Then we can talk about legalisation of illigals. I just hope it won't have much effect on the price of dope. Jedem Das Seine.

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Jedem Das Seine.

for some reasons that I don't understand US just refuses to create normal borders with South and north neigbors.... Both parties are guilty in this and I don;t see anyone doing nything about it in the future.... Weird... -------------------

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

Don't be innocent KGBman. Both parties here are nothing but wings of the American Business Party providing different perspectives on issues and giving impulse to healthy debate. They will seldom do anything that is not of benefit to American Business community. Let me get on my soap box! I view immigration issue as that of privatizing benefits and commonizing costs. Hear me out! Businesses pay taxes on labor --6.4% in Social Security and 2.something for Medicaid and Medicare. Plus they provide fringe benefits that increase the cost of labor and must carry workers compensation insurance and are the subject of myriad of good and bad employment laws and regulations. Illegal labor cuts all that crap to a minimum saving employees a bunch of money! As a cherry on top of a pie these immigrants work hard and do not mind low wages. Good thing – it serves like an ongoing tax cut to producers. That’s the private benefit to the employers of illegal labor. We as consumers get a side benefit in lower prices on goods and services produced by untaxed labor. On the other hand, labor is people and people consume government services. These services (loar&order, schools, roads etc..) are paid by the individuals out of their earnings in the form of taxes. So the costs of social benefits provided to illegal labor is borne in common by all who pay taxes while the benefits are provided to all who are in the country. Bad thing – while most of the benefits of low cost labor go to some (the employers), the cost of government services consumed by illegals is shared by all (us, taxpayers). Thus existing arrangements privatize benefits and commonize costs of undocumented labor. The costs to government itself are low, due to benefits of scale cost of one additional unit of service is minimal. Those local governments that have to substantially increase their expenditures on services without getting any tax money from people consuming them are screaming bloody murder! They are located mostly along the Mexican border and to them costs of increased services exceed the benefits from promoting the interests of their local businesses. So, to come back to the question of why political parties don’t do something… In this country action on national level is taken when one (or more) of three things happens: clear and present danger to national security, significant part of business community stops benefiting from current conditions, “moral crusade” on the part of the citizens gains enough steam to warrant desire on the part of a major political party to “ride the issue” into power. Until one of those things happens, LEARN SOME SPANISH! In God we trust all others traiga el efectivo! This is the outline of my understanding of the dynamics of this process. Hope it makes sense :-) Jedem Das Seine.

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Jedem Das Seine.

Orkster - I think you get the picture :) Great post. But I share KGBman's confusion as to WHY this is neither seen as as a clear and present security risk. Nothing is more clear and present in terms of security for any nation as control of its physical borders. Especially the US, the most widely and violently despised nation on earth. The "moral crusade" seems to be in the other direction, as proportion of hispanic vote increases. And I am talking about LEGAL immigrants here who brainwash each other on the local community level. Recent demonstrations are a good example of this. Ethnic radiostations, TV channels, even schools and community centers specifically agitated the masses. And the slogans - to paraphrase them all "illegal=legal". There is indeed a moral crusade, and as usual, it is in the wrong direction. Keep in mind that the same agitating forces, keep these people voting at much higher percentage turnout than general americans. The party that loses them, will not win anything for decades. So there you have it.... "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." -H. G. Wells, Outline of History (1920)

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Immigrants, which include illegal immigrants provide cheap labor, scientific knowledge and also start businesses that offer jobs to Americans. I think our immigration policy should be friendly towards immigrants and pragmatic. Immigrants do not "steal" jobs, rather, for the most part, immigrants have produced jobs. The only jobs that immigrants have stolen are the jobs that Americans do not wish to have in the first place. The US has been and continues to be, built on the backs of immigrants. So, I think it is quite important for lawmakers in Congress to have a policy and to pass laws that are friendly towards law abiding immigrants. Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -George Orwell

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

That's the thing, we should have liberal immigration policy towards LEGAL immigration and kill all illegal ones ... or just send them out... But nothing can be changed without having a real border. How can anyone even begin to talk about solving illegal immigration problems without talking about secured border first ? It's like all lawmakers and wannabees are blind on one eye..... -------------------

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....