For those who are concerned and/or are interested: Voter registration deadline is next Tuesday – October 10 and all voter applications must be postmarked by that date in order for a citizen to vote in the November 7 election. Below is a link to a Voter Application PDF [url]http://www.sos.state.ga.us/ELECTIONS/voter_registration/vra_2003_update.pdf [/url] Mail voter registration applications to: Cathy Cox Secretary of State 1104 West Tower, 2 Martin Luther King Drive, S.E. Atlanta, Georgia 30334-1505 or to your local county board of registrars' office (voter registration applications may not be faxed): [url] http://www.sos.state.ga.us/ELECTIONS/voter_registration/registrars.asp [/url]

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Can you make this post always stay in the Active topics section, so our more histerical members can rest easily ?

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

I still have absolutely no motivation to vote... Maybe I am screwed up in the head.. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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Originally posted by Egor: I still have absolutely no motivation to vote... Maybe I am screwed up in the head.. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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not voting is saying that you like things as they are now.. do you ? or not voting is saying you don't believe anything will chage no matter who is in power.. do you believe that ? so let me ask you: if Gore became a president in 2000 - do you think 9/11 would happen, considering how many warnings they had ? wourd NORAD stand down on 9/11 ? and if it still happened - do you think US troops would be now dying in Iraq for nothing, as well as countless iraqis ? you are not screwed up in the head... you simply, like so many others, somehow don't feel the connection between your vote and some stupid war 5 years down the road.. and somehow you don't see that this country can operate best when power camps are balanced out in Washington, not when one party does what it wants uchecked.. you are one of the smart ones.. not voting is inexusable for smart person... as well as not seeng the connection between votes and events..

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Originally posted by Egor: I still have absolutely no motivation to vote... Maybe I am screwed up in the head.. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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we're all screwed in one way or the other...

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik:

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Originally posted by Egor: I still have absolutely no motivation to vote... Maybe I am screwed up in the head.. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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not voting is saying that you like things as they are now.. do you ? or not voting is saying you don't believe anything will chage no matter who is in power.. do you believe that ? so let me ask you: if Gore became a president in 2000 - do you think 9/11 would happen, considering how many warnings they had ? wourd NORAD stand down on 9/11 ? and if it still happened - do you think US troops would be now dying in Iraq for nothing, as well as countless iraqis ? you are not screwed up in the head... you simply, like so many others, somehow don't feel the connection between your vote and some stupid war 5 years down the road.. and somehow you don't see that this country can operate best when power camps are balanced out in Washington, not when one party does what it wants uchecked.. you are one of the smart ones.. not voting is inexusable for smart person... as well as not seeng the connection between votes and events..

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Well I still might vote for president, although also doubtful. But I was talking about this election. Look at the candidates for Georgia.. Am I supposed to blindly vote democratic to balance the power? Then what happens in 2 years if a democrat wins presidency? :) Am I supposed to vote on local issues? Yeah right. Maybe if one of them doubles their IQ. :) Fuck it, I REALLY don't care. At all. I wish Georgia had no representation at all :) As far as connection to events, 9/11 would have happened, I think by election time they were already done planning, and the recruitment and motivation came from Clinton. As far as immediate response, I think it would have been similar. I have no information saying otherwise, because all democratic votes and actions are on record. If anything, I like what Rumsfeld did trying to reform the military in that 6 months, wish he had more time. As far as longer-term response, we also have democratic vote record. I know, I know, they were lied to, but my problem with Iraq has nothing to do with WMD's, as you know. You know, incompetence must be a very contageous desease in Washington. Even longer term - i am talking next 10-20 years, I think the consequences of what democrats want to do can easily kill more americans. As well as non-Americans. For those to whom that matters. What I really want is some pest control. Drain the fucking washington swamp, get some independent cadidates with big brains and different priorities. I can't guess who'll fuck up the country more. I am not psychic. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Egor, would IRAQ WAR happen if Gore was a president and his people were running all the departments ? you know damn well it wouldn't.. so here is your answer - vote for those who wouldn't dump US in to such military, political and financial trouble.. it is always the choice between bad and worst.. you will never get the perfect candidate, or perfect party.. you will never get those "independent candidates with big brains and different priorities", it's not going to happen, it's a two-party system, anyone and everyone is falling on one of two sides.. it will take hundred years to develop third party or other strong parties, given that someone will try to do it.. but it took only 3 years to start Iraq war.. you got no time to enjoy your idealistic dreams... and if you don't vote for dems - you will automatically support reps.. no matter what you do you will fall on one or other side, even by doing nothing.. so make your choice, not having a choice is not an option..

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: Egor, would IRAQ WAR happen if Gore was a president and his people were running all the departments ? you know damn well it wouldn't..

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Are you saying Gore would have served 8 years? :) You can guess how Gore would have voted on Iraq in 2003 if he was a senator. You know how Kerry voted. With Clinton being on the verge of attacking Iraq, and all the videotapes we have of what dems have been saying about Iraq, and 9/11 added to the mix, yes, I think there would have been a confrontation of some type.. What type, is getting even farther into hypotheticals, but what the dems want to do now (i am hoping these are just words) is considerably more harmful in my view. By any measurement you use.. Lives, stability, geopolitics, etc. But back to the original invasion, all the stuff dems say now about how it was stupid, has NOTHING TO DO WITH WMDs! It was just stupid, period. If WMD's were found, nothing would be different now, and it would have still been stupid. The insurgency is not upset that we were wrong about WMDs! And NONE of this I heard from dems in 2003. Incompetence does not discriminate by party. So there you have it.

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: so here is your answer - vote for those who wouldn't dump US in to such military, political and financial trouble..

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I don;t know about that.. Dems have a considerably worse track record with "political and financial trouble". I mean in recent decades. And I see nothing in their "core values" that says otherwise. They are just saying pleasant stuff right now bacause millions of dumbasses listen.

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: it is always the choice between bad and worst.. you will never get the perfect candidate, or perfect party.. you will never get those "independent candidates with big brains and different priorities", it's not going to happen, it's a two-party system, anyone and everyone is falling on one of two sides.. it will take hundred years to develop third party or other strong parties, given that someone will try to do it.. but it took only 3 years to start Iraq war.. you got no time to enjoy your idealistic dreams...

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I would say the opposite. It is the "idealistic" dreamers who do vote, that have built and are promoting the current system. Just from reading these forums.. You guys are never getting what you want. You are constantly lied to, and you fall for it. If people wise up, this will end. if they don't you are correct. The democrats could easily be that party, and so could republicans, if they just stopped playing into the hands of puppets that vote. You know, the voter turnout in people with idealistic, extremist convictions is much higher that that among normal people. But these votes are there for the taking...

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: and if you don't vote for dems - you will automatically support reps..

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why not the dems? :)

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: no matter what you do you will fall on one or other side, even by doing nothing..

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That's more like it.. :)

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: so make your choice, not having a choice is not an option..

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It is the ONLY option if I want change. Eventually someone will go after people like me. There just needs to be more of us. You know I believe in democracy :) So I want one built. [/quote] ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Just want to add.. I think this country is in the early stages of a change that i am talking about. Nothing makes me happier than the fact that the dems are barely over 50% when 10 years ago, all else being equal (same political situation), they would be at 80%. This indicates that we are moving towards centrism becoming a majority. And as that happens, there will be candidates. They may not even change party name. But they will be more moderate. More intellectual. And they cannot lose. Bush being considered "dumb" in the eyes of the public is also an indicator. This was never the case before, no matter how dumb a leader was. In any country. If intellect mattered, half the congress would be replaced... And it would not have voted for the invasion of Iraq in the form that was on the table. Simple as that.. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Egor, i am not going to argue your every point, i sincerely believe that you do not understand that you, as well as US in whole, don't have time to wait for ultimate cure and absolutely have to work with medicine at hand however imperfect it may be... also i don't see that i can persuade you that with Gore/dems in power there'd be no lies and cherry-picking of intelligence that Bush and Co. did, and there'd be no Iraq disaster.. whatever, believe what you believe.. but please know the following: no one will ever go after the people like you, there is enough of those who got motivated by what they saw in last 5 years.. if it hasn't been enough for you - sorry, but no personal invitation will follow.. intellectual superiority is worth nothing if it is merely watching and not doing anything.. you, in fact, don't believe in democracy and don't appreciate what you got.. you don't understand that in absolutely every society at all times democracy was build by choosing lesser evil over greater evil, there never were perfect candidates and perfect parties, and there never will be.. people of no country ever reached even the remote state of democracy by simply sitting at home and waiting for things to get comfy enough so they'd be inclined to gracefuly slip a pece of paper in a beautiful voting box while charming music was in the air, that never happened.. US did not arrive at where it was 5 years, 10 years ago due to people that did not vote, i am sure that you understand at least that... you wan't democracy ? you "want one built" ? so, where can we deliver you the keys from democracy when we finish our small shady shenanigans, stop playng our weirld elections with unworthy candidates, test-run the final product couple times, and become ready to invite you to the party, now that's it good enough for you ? how do you think Bush got almost elected in 2000 ? well, largely due to many US citizens not considering US worthy of their heavenly vote, i guess... will you ever get that assholes are always motivated to vote more than democracy-oriented thinking intellectuals ? compare yourself with average christian right voter.. and now you have what you have, enjoy Bush for all he's worth.. but wait, you doubt that dems wouldn't mess up country even worse, right ? hm, i guess indeed it makes sense for us, smart intellectuals to sit at home, and to let christian right, rednecks and other nice pips to choose our future for us... but you know what ? there is always the bottom line.. you just hasn't been hit by anything at all.. you got no son in the military.. you earn enough not to worry about oil prices.. no one you know suffered because of habeus corpus biting the dust.. and this thingy, this old piece of paper, the constitution ? who cares if it's being dismantled, right ? you are not involved on animal level, and on intellectual level you excercise the seeming luxusry of doing nothing.. and so let us allow others choose out future for us ! anyways, if dems won't take over the HOUSE just because many smart democracy-adoring folks like you are not "motivated" to vote - can we agree that you will not ever again post any article or opinion critical of how things are in this country ? you don't have a chance to make things perfect... all you got - a chance to may be make things somewhat better.. if you refuse to use it - enjoy the things as they are, ok ?

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If you don't want to talk point by point (e.g. THINK), and just want to keep repeating the same mindless memorized slogans, I would rather not talk at all. You know how I hate that :) I can hear the same crap on an MTV "get out the vote". Same arguments, intended for stoned 18-year olds. I was hoping you'd have something more :) You say we must accept the system and work within it. But the only reason it exists, is you. And after this, I could repeat ALL your arguments against YOU. And stop talking about the "perfect candidate". They are your words, not mine. I am much more open to variety of politocal opinions than you are, my friend. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

sorry, Egor, slogans or not, but you can not argue with the following point of mine: no country ever got anywhere due to people who don't vote.. i take it that you are not voting this time.. congratulations, you just put your stamp of approval on everything, from Katrina to Iraq.. no other way around it.. you just said "i like things as they are". period. of course, Egor, i understand that your not voting is a result of a sophisticated intellectual process (no sarcasm here), and i am ready to agree with you on many of your points, but what it all comes down to is this - not voting is same as saying "i like things as they are".. i know you don't want to say this, but you just did.. which makes me very sad indeed..

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: sorry, Egor, slogans or not, but you can not argue with the following point of mine: no country ever got anywhere due to people who don't vote..

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That's because in every case, someone eventually wants their vote I didn't say I'll never vote in my life. I will vote if someone earns it. Even in 2008, if such person exists :) I admit, I would also vote for the lesser of 2 evils, if I consider one evil significantly worse than the other. At this point I don't. You brought up Iraq, I addressed that. You brought up Katrina, I've addressed that on the forum too. As far as things not affecting me personally - you are very correct. I've made personal choices ensuring that. Nor do I share any idiotic extremist interests each party wants to pursue. I am not a part of this circus.

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: i take it that you are not voting this time.. congratulations, you just put your stamp of approval on everything, from Katrina to Iraq.. no other way around it.. you just said "i like things as they are". period. of course, Egor, i understand that your not voting is a result of a sophisticated intellectual process (no sarcasm here), and i am ready to agree with you on many of your points, but what it all comes down to is this - not voting is same as saying "i like things as they are".. i know you don't want to say this, but you just did..

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I'm trying to make a case that "i like things the way they are" is what rats do when they play in the maze built for them. You see, when 50% vote for one of the two parties, no message is sent that they voting for the lesser of 2 evils. The message sent is that 50% of people like tem. And there is no more harmful message we could possibly send. Democracy is like capitalism - it's supply-demand. If in the past non-voters were apolitical, today's moderates are VERY political. What do you have against the argument that if the votes are there for the taking, someone will go after them? Clinton tried it :) And that's when the swing vote was only like 5%. It's much bigger now. And the stakes are bigger. And people are WAY more educated about geopolitics, no matter how you look at it.

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Originally posted by raspindyaichik: which makes me very sad indeed..

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Don't be sad, I might have voted republican :) You still have your 49% base, and a couple of angry dissidents to put you just a hair over 50%. Perhaps you should be happy centrists aren't voting. They've always screwed you before (except when they voted for Clinton). ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

How cool - my first post after long break, and already a solid discussion Being the purpose of this post exactly to hopefully interest people in voting, I'd like to keep this discussion alive. Without too much of demagogy I'd like to summarize two major points of this discussion so far: 1. I do not agree with any candidate and therefore I won't vote untill I find a candidate I agree with 2. I must absolutely vote on a "party" basis because otherwise - the other party may win. Personally I don't 100% agree with either point, even though I do associate more with the first one. I am really sick and tired of this stupid partisan political game. The bottom line is - it is not about people, it is about the power. And this is sad an frustrating. I'd like to offer another option for discussion - how about selecting a few issues that you find most important, and matching which candidate claims to support more of them. Egor, you stated that neither of the GA representatives fit you bill - how come? Can you sahare what you agree and what you disagree with? It is absolutely true that no candidate will ever be 100% perfect for each voter. But instead of "lesser evil" approach, maybe we could try the "critical issues" approach.

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ShEV, "critical issues" is same as "lesser evil", this just how i call it.. and i agree that it is not about people, it is about power.. but here is where my main point is.. with republicans controlling all branches of government the precious system of checks and balances seized to exist.. i am not asking people to elect democrats into every office in the country, all i am asking is to restore balance in Washington... this two-party system can operate properly only with such balance.. and there is no third party.. all Ralph Neider did in 2000 is elected Bush.. so, guys, i have absolutely no idea how to try to affect the crazyness that is going on other than help dems.. sorry...

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