http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/24/economic.stimulus/index.html

 thoughts??

The economists actually think that last time (5-6 years ago was it?) people spent about 2/3 of the rebate.  No matter how insignifacant the rebate may seem, altogether it comes to billions of dollars given to the public, money which they treat as a windfall.
But considering that financial industry is losing billions monthly, and the domino effect it is causing, this is a drop in a bucket and will not stop the inevitable.

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Why not skip a step, give it straight to the retailers   Passing it through  the consumer can only be percieved as a combination of pre-election populism and an inflator of those particular numbers that trickle-down economists use as guages.  The same numbers that they've used since the 80s to tell us things are fine whenever they aren't.

And plus... for those of you whose conventional wisdom is that taxes are too high and lowering this burden is indiscriminantly a positive step, this is fine. Might as well make it more.   You are the ones this little scheme is directed towards, your only job as a good American is to keep track of who gets credit . 

And if I get a few bucks out of you all getting yet another government handjob, so be it!  

What's a few billion against the existing national debt...

 

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

From the CNN article:

The stimulus package may face resistance from fiscal conservatives in both parties over worries that it would increase the federal debt.

Gee... I wonder what happened to the whole idea of how lower taxes boost economy and actually increase revenue?  You know, that supply-side theory that "fiscal conservatives" were preaching for years...

Sometimes it is necessary to increase government spending to boost economy, even if it is deficit spending. 

As far as the effectiveness of the proposed stimulus plan...  If the recepients save or invest the money I think it will be helpful.  If, however, they go out get themselves some "zero-down no payments until June" made-in-China trinkets then it will be a waste.

 

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Sasha

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Work is a matter of taste. If you don't work you don't taste.

Forgive me for going of on a tangent here, but currently I am reading a book about The Great Depression. 

When talking about years preceding the Depression the book describes a real-estate bubble (and subsequent bust) in Florida and California, excessive borrowing by consumers, and stock market speculation.  Short of the stock market speculation things are very similar to the ongoing crisis. 

While I do not beleive that the current crisis will approach even in the worst case anything remotely similar to the magnitude of The Great Depression there are a few things we can learn.

 

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Sasha

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Work is a matter of taste. If you don't work you don't taste.

А зря не верите. . .
Something that evreyone should understand in the current situation: the United States were in an economical experiment for the past 30 years.   Whatever controls were implemented in the aftermath of the Great Depression were progressively dismantled beginning with Carter administration, and subsequently by Reagan and everyone after.  Well, we're about to see those policies to come to fruition.
Apparently, the free-for-all capitalism is not such a great idea. . .

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From what I understand, only folks with individual annual income of less than $75K (or less than 150K if married filing jointly) qualify. According to the recent salary poll, most of Russian Atlanta forum participants get way more than this , so the question is not very relevant.

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412, what controls have been dismantled?  All the ones that come to mind haven't been.

True, we've created brand new risks recently with bad economic policies (this "stimulus" is case in point), but that has nothing to do with business cycles.  If anything, we are too effective at preventing normal capitalist cycles from occuring, which carries an unknown risk of losing control of the situation altogether.  Like overuse of antibiotics :)

 

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Bobrik:

From what I understand, only folks with individual annual income of less than $75K (or less than 150K if married filing jointly) qualify. According to the recent salary poll, most of Russian Atlanta forum participants get way more than this , so the question is not very relevant.

I would think it is quite relevant if those who pay the most are excluded from the plan.  The plan seems to be based on Robin Hood economics... those who pay the least will receive the most.  I just wonder how many flat panel televisions will be purchased with the money.....

Leah:

... I just wonder how many flat panel televisions will be purchased with the money.....

 They should have mailed the checks before the superbowl

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Bobrik:

Leah:

... I just wonder how many flat panel televisions will be purchased with the money.....

 They should have mailed the checks before the superbowl

Don't worry.  I am sure some people already went out and bought flat screen TVs in the anticipation of the checks arriving.

 

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Sasha

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Work is a matter of taste. If you don't work you don't taste.

That's the point, they don't have to give it to people who will invest them! They want spenders...

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Or to spread out foreclosures more evenly over 2008

 Also, we should keep in mind that this does not even put a dent into the average existing consumer debt.  Not to mention real estate debt.  Overspending on these things in the first place is the cause of what we are dealing with.  Not a solution.

It inflated all numbers beyond what incomes justify, giving them a nice amount of room to fall.  That's exactly what this stimulus does - inflates them more beyond what incomes justify.  Unless they make this a yearly bonus

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

Egor:

412, what controls have been dismantled?  All the ones that come to mind haven't been.

 Egor, banking deregulation was going on since the 70's, interest rates in borrowing & lending used to be controlled by the feds.
 

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are these rates not still proportional to the fed rate?  The problem we are in now was because the Fed lowered rates, and the banks had to follow.

The ARMs and other subprimes should be illegal though.  The depth of this downturn will determine whether it becomes that way.

But the biggest problem - determining what any individual qualifies for, wasn't that ALWAYS done by banks here?  The system where they are not hurt by making these decisions incorrectly means the system is corrupted somehow.. Regulation is conventinally seen as bad, but if  having to send cash from tax revenues to bail out both - lenders and borrowers is the side effect, some regulation looks good by comparison.  Assuming, of course, we are supporters of free market capitalism.

Otherwise, we are transfering corporate and consumer debt to national debt.  What kind of capitalism is that?

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский